Saturday, July 09, 2005

Where is the Gandhi of Islam? by Charles Moore

He is not always worth reading, Charles Moore, but this article is a tour de force. Go read.

Where is the Gandhi of Islam?
By Charles Moore
Telegraph
09/07/2005

The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, was in Singapore on Thursday, having helped London's successful Olympic bid. His stricken face showed his shock, and of course he condemned the attacks. Then he analysed them. They were not, he said, attacks "against the mighty and the powerful", but against "working-class Londoners". Would they have been all right, one wondered, if they had been against the mighty and powerful, or if they had cleverly found a way of killing only middle-class Londoners? Then Mr Livingstone said: "This is not an ideology or even a perverted faith." Why did he want to say that? How - if, as the authorities tell us, the attacks were carried out by Islamist extremists - could this be true?

The mayor of our bombed city has himself got involved with Muslim leaders who say some interesting things. Last year, Mr Livingstone extended a warm welcome in London to Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a mainstream, world-famous spiritual leader based in Qatar. Qaradawi has supported suicide bombing against Israelis, the treatment of all Jews as legitimate targets, the whipping of homosexuals and the killing of all Americans - civilian and military - in Iraq. Surely, Ken recognises an ideology here, and a faith of sorts? Yet he praised, rather than condemned, and so now, when the logical extension of such ideas hits King's Cross and the Edgware Road and kills dozens of his voters, he has to say that such deeds arise from no belief at all.

........

Mohammed Abdul Bari from the East London Mosque ... welcomed to the opening of the London Muslim Centre Sheikh Abdul Rahman al Sudais, the Saudi-government-appointed imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca. In Mecca two years ago, al Sudais described Jews as "scum of the earth", "rats of the world" and "monkeys and pigs who should be annihilated". Yet, criticise al Sudais, and Mohammed Abdul Bari leaps furiously to his defence.

As I write, I have beside me an article that appeared during our recent election campaign in Muslim Weekly. By Sheikh Dr Abdalqadir as-Sufi, it calls for the replacement of British parliamentary democracy with "a new civilisation based on the worship of Allah", attacks the Conservatives for being "in the hands of an illegal Jewish immigrant from Romania" and speaks of the "near-demented judaic banking elite". These views are expressed by an educated Muslim in a Muslim publication. Are these Muslim views, non-Muslim views, anti-Muslim views?

........

What about the methods of the police? Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, has shown himself so obsessed with the implementation of the recommendations of the Macpherson report that followed the Stephen Lawrence case that he has been officially criticised for "hanging out to dry" three officers falsely accused of racism. His approach to policing Muslims appears to be to seek the consent of those he supposes to be community leaders before "going in". It is surely not right that they should have a veto on whether or not an inquiry is pursued, and it must be asked whether all of them could be trusted not to protect some of those who merit police attention.

The methods matter, too. Although offence should always be avoided if possible, if the police will not use dogs in their investigations of Muslims (as they may do with almost anyone else), and if they undertake never to go into the religious parts of Islamic buildings, then some people with things to hide will hide them.
........

When did you last hear criticisms of named extremist groups and organisations by Muslim leaders, or support for their expulsion, imprisonment or extradition? How often do you see fatwas issued against suicide bombers and other terrorists, or statements by learned men declaring that people who commit such deeds will go to hell? When do Muslim leaders and congregations insist that a particular imam leave his mosque because of the poison that he disseminates every Friday? When did a British Muslim last go after a Muslim who advocates or practises violence with anything like the zeal with which so many went after Salman Rushdie? Why is not more stigma attached to the Muslims who are murdering other Muslims every day in Iraq and the Middle East?

What communal protection is offered to those Muslims who really are brave and confront Islamist violence, or the poor treatment of women, or call for democracy in the Middle East? How much do mainstream political parties with Muslim councillors and candidates really insist on their religious moderation and co-opt them to extrude the bad people lurking within their communities? I understand and accept that there are many moderates among British Muslims, but I want to know why Britain gets so pitifully little to show for their moderation.

21 comments:

JP said...

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/359
Anti-Islamists Petition the United Nations
October 30, 2004
Daniel Pipes Weblog

Anti-Islamists Petition the United Nations On Oct. 24, 2004 a petition was posted at both METransparent.com and Elaph.com titled "From Liberal Arabs to United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, and the chairman and members of the Security Council."

...

The signatories describe those who use religion for inciting violence as "the sheikhs of death". Among those mentioned by name is Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian preacher working in Qatar. The signatories accuse him of "providing a religious cover for terrorism." Last year Qaradawi raised a storm when he issued a fatwa allowing the killing of Israeli pregnant women and their unborn babies on the ground that the babies could grow up to join the Israeli Army. Last September, Qaradawi in a fatwa in response to a question from the Egyptian Union of Journalists said killing "all Americans, civilian or military" in Iraq was allowed.

--------------

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Yusuf-al_Qaradawi#Suicide_bombings

Qaradawi strongly supports Palestinian suicide bombing attacks, including against civilians and claim there are legitimate form of resistance.

--------------

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Yusuf-al_Qaradawi#Criticism_of_him_as_being_opposed_to_democracy_and_universal_human_rights

With regards to homosexuality, he states that "The jurists of Islam have held different opinions concerning the punishment for this abominable practice. Should it be the same as the punishment for zina, or should both the active and passive participants be put to death? While such punishments may seem cruel, they have been suggested to maintain the purity of the Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements." - The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam, p. 165. Such attitudes are widely regarded in the West as constituting homophobia and endorsing murder, and he has been criticised for them by groups such as OutRage!.

JP said...

Re: the MCB statement: very welcome, and about f*cking time too - more typical of their (& their loathsome leader Sacranie's) output has been stuff like this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/24/nhol24.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/24/ixhome.html
Holocaust Day boycott by Muslim Council

BTW, confirmation of the al Sudais comments from Harry's Place:

http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2004/06/11/banning_preachers.php

http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2004/06/25/alsudais_update.php

dan said...

UK Fatwa to Call Bombers Unbelievers, If Proved Muslims


http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-07/10/article03.shtml

btw: the site is Islamonline, which is the one linked A Quaradwi and most often used to connect him to the views outlines in the Moore article.

(Here's an old Nick Cohen article by way of example: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1418465,00.html )

dan said...

Wemb, I'm going to try to find the Al Quaradwi interview you mentioned. However, here's a story from Outrage:

http://outrage.nabumedia.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=270

Please look at it and download the 10 point dossier - it has direct quotes from Al-Quaradwi and links to the website on which he is quoted (islamonline). It is as conclusive as anmything I've seen.

dan said...

INteresting though that Al-Quaradwi is nonethelless considered a moderate by by more conservative clerics:

'Qaradawi criticised by conservative Islam
Qaradawi has been attacked by all sides of the Islamic ideology spectrum for his vision of "moderate" Islam. Qaradawi during elections in 2002 in Bahrain, released a fatwa allowing women, especially those past their child-bearing years, as candidates in municipal elections. A Saudi scholar quickly responded that this was illegal under his interpretation of Islamic law. A ’’‘fatwa’’’ (Arabic: فتوى) plural ‘fataawa’, is a legal pronouncement in Islam, issued by a religious law specialist on a specific issue. ...

Qaradawi also urged the Taliban to reconsider its decision to tear down the Buddha statues in Afghanistan in 2001. He was quickly criticized for supporting "idol worship".

Qaradawi's vision of moderate Islam is one that in his own words "seeks balance between intellect and the heart, between religion and the world, between spirituality and materialism and between individualism and the group."'

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Yusuf-al_Qaradawi#Criticism_of_him_as_being_opposed_to_democracy_and_universal_human_rights

dan said...

Newsnight transcript: Al Qaradawi on suicide bombings:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3875119.stm

'MARSHALL:
In the mind of Sheikh Yusuf Al- Qaradawi, that view prevails even though women and children are often the innocent victims.

SHEIKH YUSEF AL-QARADAWI
TRANSLATION:
Israeli women are not like women in our society because Israeli women are militarised. Secondly, I consider this type of martyrdom operation as indication of justice of Allah almighty. Allah is just. Through his infinite wisdom he has given the weak what the strong do not possess and that is the ability to turn their bodies into bombs like the Palestinians do.'

dan said...

Sorry to keep banging on about Al Qaradawi but the research is quite easy.

Here's Mayor Ken - (btw I wrote to him at the time asking him to explain himself and this is the reponse I received)

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=3862

Key quotes:

"With regard to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, Prof Al Qaradawi takes the view that if one side is attacking with planes, tanks and missiles the other has the right to use their bodies as bombs.

My views on the Middle East are well known. I believe the cycle of violence has to be broken – and that neither Israeli attacks on civilian areas with tanks and missiles nor suicide bombings are a way forward. What is necessary is a just peace settlement which implements the United Nations resolutions demanding that Israel withdraws from the occupied territories and recognises the rights of the Palestinians and Israel to their own states within secure borders.

I therefore condemn all violence not merely the violence of one side or the other and I will continue to speak with supporters of the Palestinian people and the state of Israel in order to promote the dialogue which is the only way top resolve that conflict."

"Al Qaradawi does not advocate killing gay people. Leaders of Islam, the Roman Catholic Church, Evangelical Christian groups, Judaism and other major religions in the main take a similar negative attitude to the same sex relationships. I don’t agree with any of them on this issue."


And here's the dossier dissected by Outrage in my earlier post.

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=4744

dan said...

And finally - here's an interview with al-qaradawi from The Guardian (perhaps the one Wemb mentioned.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1258933,00.html

'"My opinion is that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, as in Christianity." But any punishment was a matter for the state, and Muslims were subject to those laws. He added: "Muslims have no right to punish homosexuals or mistreat them as individuals."'

dan said...

Actually one last comment: although Wemb's initial point is well taken, al-qaradawi definitely condones the use of suicide bombings (see the interview I just posted and various other posts eleswhere in this thread.) The stuff about homosexuality and wife beating is more open to interpretation.

JP said...

Have you considered the possibility that there are some positions that are so unreasonable that it is impossible to come to an accommodation with them?

dan said...

Wemb: I agree that case for suicide bombings can be made. Was simply pointing out that (contrary to your first post in this thread) Al-Qaradawi was one of the people making such a case.

JP said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?menuId=1588&menuItemId=-1&view=DISPLAYCONTENT&grid=P8&targetRule=0

Some Telegraph letters commenting on the Moore article, including one from the MCB.

JP said...

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2754
The Next London Bombing
by Daniel Pipes
FrontPageMagazine.com
July 11, 2005

In a confidential report, Young Muslims and Extremism, prepared jointly by the Home and Foreign offices in mid-2004 and presented to Prime Minister Tony Blair, we learn something about the inner thinking of the British government. Leaked to the Sunday Times of London, the report is now available in four parts in .pdf format at the newspaper's site.

...

The point that most of all interested me, however, in reading Young Muslims and Extremism is where it draws on MI5 information to make this astonishing statement:
Intelligence indicates that the number of British Muslims actively engaged in terrorist activity, whether at home or abroad or supporting such activity, is extremely small and estimated at less than 1% (pdf 2, p. 9).
If one accepts the report's estimate (pdf 2, p. 5) that the Muslim population of Great Britain numbers 1.6 million, then up to 16,000 "British Muslims actively engaged in terrorist activity."

"Extremely small"? Excuse me, but that number strikes me as extremely large

JP said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/07/12/do1202.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/07/12/ixopinion.html
Islam does incubate terrorism
By Mark Steyn
Telegraph
12/07/2005

When events such as last Thursday's occur, two things happen, usually within hours if not minutes: first, spokespersons for Islamic lobby groups issue warnings about an imminent backlash against Muslims.
In fairness to British organisations, I believe they were beaten to the punch by the head of the Canadian Islamic Congress whose instant response to the London bombings was to issue a statement calling for prayers that "Canadian Muslims will not pay a price for being found guilty by association".

In most circumstances it would be regarded as appallingly bad taste to deflect attention from an actual "hate crime" by scaremongering about a non-existent one. But it seems the real tragedy of every act of "intolerance" by Islamist bigots is that it might hypothetically provoke even more intolerance from us irredeemable white imperialist racists. My colleague Peter Simple must surely marvel at how the identity-group grievance industry has effortlessly diversified into pre-emptively complaining about acts of prejudice that have not yet occurred.

...

Terrorism ends when the broader culture refuses to tolerate it. There would be few if any suicide bombers in the Middle East if "martyrdom" were not glorified by imams and politicians, if pictures of local "martyrs" were not proudly displayed in West Bank grocery stores, if Muslim banks did not offer special "martyrdom" accounts to the relicts thereof, if schools did not run essay competitions on "Why I want to grow up to be a martyr".

At this point, many readers will be indignantly protesting that this is all the fault of Israeli "occupation", but how does that explain suicide bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where there's not a Zionist oppressor for hundreds of miles?

JP said...

Both from today's BBC News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4686089.stm

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Met Police commissioner Sir Ian Blair said ... police would also work with the Muslim community, which he said had been "close to denial" about extremist preachers, to defeat terrorism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4686217.stm

Leeds Metropolitan University lecturer Razaq Raj said ... mosques in Leeds were not homes to radical fundamentalism. No mosque spokesman was immediately available. ... He said: "The last thing we want is radical groups in Leeds. "I can tell you categorically that at Leeds Metropolitan University and Leeds University there are no radical groups there.

JP said...

1. Given that his patch has just been bombed from Yorkshire, it would be pretty remarkable if Blair was *only* concerned with Muslim radicalism in the 070 / 080 areas.

2. The entire country's (not just Leeds') Muslim community leaders seem to be astonished that this has been going on openly under their noses for years. Given that, would you put a lot of money on this "Razaq Raj" being the only one who's clued up?

JP said...

Re: "Muslim world rejecting violence, says poll": welcome news if true, tho percentages still seem bloody high to me.

Re: Palestinian devils' advocate, you haven't answered my "which land, which point?" in that thread (http://impdec.blogspot.com/2005/07/act-of-small-time-losers-anatole.html).

JP said...

I posted here http://impdec.blogspot.com/2005/07/multi-culturism-and-dangers-of.html about a guy from Combat 18 becoming an Islamic fundamentalist...

dan said...

Remember Al Qaradawi - he's been mentioned in a number of our threads - this one in particular. Anyway for those who are interested read this critique of an interview with him in the Guardian.


http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2005/10/31/advocacy.php

dan said...

Could have created a new post, but thought this thread had a fair bit on Islamo/homo-phobia.

Gay magazine in race row after calling Islam a barmy doctrine

And here's one of the journalist's response:

Humanism and Islam

And some responses to the response:

Don't judge all Muslims by Iran

JP said...

Yep, deffo one to try on the girlf:

----

European Council for Fatwa and Research: Women Can't Speak and Remember at the Same Time
Translating Jihad
March 12, 2011

The below translation comes from a section of a 2006 Arabic-language essay entitled "Women and Political and Democratic Participation" (see page 21), produced by the European Council for Fatwa and Research, which is presided over by the Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader Yusuf al-Qaradawi. This is in the context of explaining some of the differences between men and women. This idea was also previously put forth by al-Qa'ida-linked Yemeni cleric 'Abd-al-Majid al-Zindani. And of course it's all based on Qur'an 2:282, as you'll read below, which stipulates that a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man under Islamic law.

Try this one on your wife or girlfriend: "Honey, just slow down and think for a second before you tell me, because I know you can't speak and remember at the same time." Let me know how that goes...

[...] Time magazine, in its 31 July 1995 (pg. 39) publication, presented the results of a scientific study which displayed the image of a woman’s brain when she was engrossed in speaking and conversing. At that moment, both sides of the brain were completely occupied, being used to process speech. It also showed the image of a man’s brain when he was speaking, and only one side was being used. This makes him more precise (in speaking), because he uses the second side of his brain to remember, while the woman occupies both sides of her brain just to speak. This -- Allah knows best -- is the secret of the saying of Almighty Allah: “If there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her” [Qur’an 2:282]. [...]